Kathy Vs. Rachel: Battle Of The Reader Avatars

The secret to connecting with readers is not some mystical publishing magic – it is knowing your reader avatars. Join Juliet Clark in this insightful episode as she talks with editor, author, and writing/strategy coach Amber Parr Burdett about the power of understanding your ideal reader. Amber highlights how getting clarity with your readers’ needs and experiences helps authors create content that resonates and engages with them. She also offers insights and strategies on how to boost your workflow, stay authentic with your message, and keep a good relationship with the right audience. Tune in now and gather actionable strategies that will elevate your writing process.

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Kathy Vs. Rachel: Battle Of The Reader Avatars

We have an editor who’s going to join us. For those of you who are thinking about or writing a book, an editor is an essential part of this. It’s the part that people probably try to skip the most and it does impact the quality of your book. Before we get started, I want to remind you about Breakthrough Author Magazine. You can find it at BreakthroughAuthorMagazine.com.

We have a lot of new contributors. We’re adding trainings and events. That’s in addition to all of those tips and tricks as well. Go over there and get your free subscription. No obligation. It’s free. It just drops into your inbox every month. You can either connect with us at that website and opt-in to have it delivered to your email box, or go follow us over on LinkedIn, where we have a huge following that subscribed over there. It will be dropped into your newsletter place every month.

Our guest is Amber Parr Burdett. She is an accomplished Editor, Author, and Writing Strategy Coach with over six years of professional experience in editorial and educational fields. She has empowered more than 350 authors across thirteen countries to shape, write, refine, and elevate their messages through her expert guidance, ensuring proactive support, and message clarity.

Amber’s industry expertise spans editing, ghostwriting, manuscript development, and curriculum analysis and creation, where she has crafted editorial flows, style guides, and instructional best practices for a range of clients from writing and publishing to startup and educational organizations. You’re probably like, “Why is this important about the course?” As many of you folks know, books don’t usually yield ROI. It’s what you do next. It is important that you understand the structure of that course you’re offering next. Stay tuned for Amber.

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Amber, welcome.

Thank you so much for having me.

I’m excited. For you folks who don’t know, Amber is a Utah person. I met her and I had to have her on since I am now a resident of Utah. Tell us, how did you get into this? Where did this career come from? I know for most people, this is not their first career.

Transitioning From Copywriting To Helping Authors Succeed

I think like most people, I had that desire when I was younger to create and to do something and write a book. Naturally, as you get older, a lot of people are like, “Be realistic. Come on, do something that makes sense.” When I went to school to get an English degree, everyone was like, “What are you going to do with that?” I was very much like, “I’m going into professional writing. I’m going to be a professional copywriter.”

I worked for online universities. I did that for a long time, freelanced, and helped authors on the side then I was like, “I can make a living out of this.” I still work part-time for an online university as their Senior Managing Copy Editor at Sophia Learning. Most of the bulk of my work is with authors and helping publishing companies establish themselves, grow, scale, and define who their target readers are. All of the above. It was that innate desire to create and help authors get their messages out there.

That is so funny. That’s how I got into it as well. It’s weird because you have a path and then your path goes off course but it comes back. When you look back, you say, “It went off course because everything that I wanted to do, I needed all this experience that I didn’t realize I needed.” It’s in that way. If I looked back when I was your age, I’d be like, “What the heck am I doing? I had a dream, and I’m nowhere near it.”

I still feel like that all the time. I’m like, “I am not living my five-year plan.” The five-year plan has evolved.

When I look back now, every step along the way, I needed, even though I didn’t know at the time that I would need that accounting experience from college and I would need that, even though I skipped through it. Everything. It was putting pieces in place to do this thing.

All the online education things that I’ve worked for have honed my skill set because a lot of the books I work with are nonfiction, professional development, and business books. Those authors use more refined language. Not as much creative flow. That’s where I get to merge my experience with the technical side and my creative side of like, “Here’s how we can incorporate your story into words.”

Turning Abstract Concepts Into Relatable Stories

That was one of my questions. You mentioned in an article that you wrote, what process do you use to convert abstract concepts into relatable personal stories in nonfiction? That is hard when you work with spiritual people because you’re taking something so esoteric and making it tangible. How do you do that?

Everything that I do is very focused on your reader and those personal relationships. When I’m working with authors, if there’s something I don’t understand, we’ll either meet, or I’ll say, “If you were talking to your one reader, that one person who needs to hear your message, not overthinking how you’re going to write it.”

We do that as writers when we’re sitting and staring at the words. If you’re just talking to me, what are you trying to say? Even if they fumble over their words, typically that message is crystal clear. It’s easy to say, “Let’s take your story and that idea that they won’t understand because they don’t have that experience.”

Mesh it with your experience to give it foundation and ground that reader in what that idea means and what it can mean for their life. It’s just getting them talking and opening up and not thinking, “I am an author. I have to be rigid. I have to be formal,” because a lot of the time, it’s more like a word vomit draft. Excuse me for saying vomit, but it is. Get it out there. Let it flow. When you’re in your flow state, you’re unstoppable.

I am not going to apologize for vomit because I call it the vomit draft. I speak to so many people who say, “I’ve been writing a book for five years.” I have to ask, “Where are you at in it?” “I’m still rewriting chapter one.” Your book will never get out if you don’t do that. I think vomit draft is a good tag for it. Every editor I speak to calls it that because it is just going in the flow. I’m going to give you guys an example.

When I was writing fiction novels, I would sit down, and there’d be days where I’d have a little block and days when I would crank out 4,000 or 5,000 words. I’d think, “I’m a writing genius.” I’d go back and see it later. I’ll go back to my rewrites and there would be such stupid things like pair, would be spelled pear. The point was that I got it out. It wasn’t brilliant, but that’s what the rewrites are for.

Also, many writers think, “I have to have this perfect space. We have to go into the cabin in the woods next to the perfect lake. That way, we can get our words out.” No. A lot of the time, it comes when you’re allowing yourself to have creative moments throughout your day-to-day. Mine’s sitting in the car, driving.

Typically, my little one’s listening to whatever music she’s listening to. I’m staring at the road and it’s very therapeutic, ideas, and thoughts start coming to me. I’ve seen that with all the writers. It’s not sitting in your own space and having the perfect writing setting with the perfect images around you. It’s getting out, being you, and letting your ideas flow. That doesn’t work for everyone. It does work for some, but not most people.

I completely agree with that. I get inspiration from driving. Being alone like on a road trip. I love to drive because I do get so much out, or even walking. If I get stuck, I’ll go for a walk. Being in nature sometimes helps get those creative juices going. I think a lot of people do that. There’s that other part because you help fiction authors too. When I used to write fiction, I would go down to this mall in Calabasas. It’s an outdoor mall. I watch people and their mannerisms and behaviors. It can sometimes stimulate a lot of what’s going on like “Look how quirky that guy is. That’s going in a story.”

All the time. You do have to use inspiration around you. Even with fiction writers, you still have to have a very clear message and very goal with your book. A lot of fiction writers refuse to believe that, but it’s true. Where are you leading the reader? Even if it’s an emotional state, you want to have that transformation.

If you don’t like, “Here’s where they’re starting, ending, or writing to,” it’s so easy to get trapped in your head and say, “I don’t know what scene’s next or what to write next.” You’re in your head. You’re not thinking about what the reader needs. What is going to get them from point A to point B?

Mastering The Show Vs. Tell Technique

That’s very true. With fiction, too. I have to say, I’m listening to Jonathan Kellerman’s latest book. It just came out. I’m always shocked that he got a deal and has so many books because his writing sometimes feels like there’s too much dialogue and the show-versus-tell is missing. I think that is truly the hardest part. I even struggle with it, and I’ve written a lot of books. Can you elaborate on that? Are there exercises you can do to overcome that show-versus-tell?

There are so many, but the one that comes to mind is to go out and imagine what you’re doing as whatever the scene is. For instance, if you are talking about two people who are drinking a cup of coffee. Go to a coffee shop and watch how they interact. If you’re talking about some fantasy, there’s still some interaction that triggered your mind to think about that fantasy. You have to look at it and truly try to visualize what’s happening. You’re not saying, “She took a sip of coffee.” You’re putting them in that situation so they can imagine it and trigger those memories.

You can smell the coffee beans as you go into that Starbucks. That, for me, triggers books. It’s whatever you want to trigger that feeling or emotion. It’s not about a scene or what’s happening. It’s focusing on how you want that reader to feel in that moment. Why is that scene important? It all comes down to how many words are important. If it’s not important to the reader, why are you even including it in the book? Maybe that scene needs to be cut.

That’s so true. It’s like when you’re talking to someone who goes off. I don’t know if you’ve ever done it. They go off on these tangents. I used to tell my ex-husband all the time, “Give birth. Get to the end.”

What is the point? We don’t mean to be. We are selfish. Committing to reading a book is a lot of time. If I’m committing to reading your book, I’m investing time and energy in your book. If your book is going on tangents, I don’t have time for that. I have a family. I have work. If you’re thinking, “What is the emotion I’m evoking with this scene?” Every 500 words.

If you’ve gone back and seen that you haven’t had a purpose for the reader, you’re not thinking about the reader. You’re thinking about yourself. It will be a lot cheaper and a lot more therapeutic to go write in your journal and have that as a hobby. Don’t be an author if you’re not willing to think about who this book is for.

When you come back to that scene, too. When I would be in that mall, I would take pictures too, so that I could put them on the wall. You may have a feeling at the time, but by the time you sit down and write, that feeling is probably gone. If you have those pictures, you can go back and evoke, “How did I feel there? What was the scenery?”

You do have to find out what works for you. Pictures work for you. What works for me is my Notes app. In my Notes app, I have hundreds of notes in there. Most of them I’ll probably never touch because I want to make sure I remember this feeling, so what was said. Not only what was said. As you revisit it, you will not have that exact same feeling before. Writing a little bit about what it meant to you can trigger that experience. How many times have we written out a quote thinking, “That’s amazing?” We come back to it when we’re angry or in a different, stressed mood, and we’re like, “That means nothing to me.”

Identifying Your Reader Avatar For Successful Platform Building

That is very true. When it comes to platform building, I feel like that reader avatar is something that people don’t consider. I’ll give you an example you’ve probably heard before. People bring me happiness books, books on how to be happy all the time. They assume that, or they’ll say to me, “Everybody wants to be happy.” They don’t understand that being unhappy serves them in some way. They’re not going to pay attention to your book. How do you narrow down that avatar and then find those people to connect with and to get that message out for the platform you’re building for the book?

It’s something that I do. I also do author coaching. One of the key components is alignment guiding, so I’m a certified alignment guide. What that means is you have a crystal-clear picture of who your reader is based on the feeling, emotion, and the vision and the goal you have for the book. Make sure it’s a reciprocal relationship between your reader and yourself. It’s serving your purpose and not just everybody.

Traditionally, avatars and ideal readers or people that we’re marketing to are like woman that ranges 24 to 37. That doesn’t work. It doesn’t work in this market. A 37-year-old woman with two kids is going to be completely different than the 24-year-old who just got married or isn’t even thinking about marriage and wants to conquer the world. It’s completely different people. When you are going super specific into who is that one person. Not just, “This age.” It’s, what are their needs and who are they as an individual? You’re thinking, are they adventurous? There are questions you can ask yourself.

They become that person and they’re your best friend. My best friend is my avatar. Her name is Rachel. She is a 31-year-old woman with two kids. I know her intimately. Anything I write in marketing, or for my book or for business, is towards her because I’m speaking to her. There are different stages of my avatar when she’s in her new mother stage, or when she’s in her stage of, “I’m ready to write my own book.” It’s still that same person.

I love that. When I first started out, I was having trouble closing deals because I wasn’t specific. My avatar is Kath. Folks, you can all do this. You don’t need a boardwalk. I went down to Santa Monica and said, “Draw Kathy.” They drew these great caricatures, but Kathy had all of these things that she was. That sat on my wall and it used to tick just like you used to say. When I was on a call, I would take down like, “Is this Kathy?” If it wasn’t Kathy, I wouldn’t make an offer.

Everything you do leading up to the point where you can make the offer should still be for Kathy or your ideal reader. I sometimes hate saying avatar because it’s like this abstract idea like what we were talking about before. It’s your person. Every marketing tactic, or every website copy, if it’s not directed towards your one reader, you’re going to get people who do not align with what you’re trying to offer. Along the way, you’re going to attract those people because your words will be so sticky. They’ll feel like, she’s talking to me. She knows me. I feel like she’s calling my soul. They feel drawn to you.

They go to your website. Again, you’ve hit their pain points and answered all their questions. You’re giving extreme value like, “I do need her book.” They read her book. It’s like, “Where does this book leave me next? I need more of this author. I need more of everything that she can give me because you have talked to one person. Instead of, “Everybody needs love.” No. A 24-year-old thinks love is like, “I need to get married.” A 37-year-old is, “I want my child’s love. Why don’t they love me?”

That’s the first step, but between the time you’re writing the book, you need to build that audience. That’s where you can take your Kathy or Rachel or whoever it is and start testing that avatar. There are so many pieces that authors forget that should happen in between the idea of the book and the book to building that audience. Many people think, “I’m just going to put it up and everybody will love it.” You have to cultivate that audience in advance. You’ll know this from marketing. You’re validating your marketing finds before the book is even written. You’re validating that somebody needs this book.

This is why you have to figure out what works for you, your cadence, or your people. You don’t have to do the posting three times a day or even every day. It’s starting with the commitment that you can commit to. For one of my authors, it was once a month. That was her goal. As we worked through the book, she was like, “I feel more creative.”

Use those creative juices, especially in the editing stage and as you’re reviewing to talk to your person. That is when you’re like, “Instead of once a month, let’s do once a week.” It’s a natural gradual increase. It’s not like, “I’m going all for it. I’m posting every day. I’m going to tell everybody. This book is hard today. I don’t want to.” It’s, “What works for me? I’m going to work ahead, and I’m going to commit.”

We start our clients with three times a week, and they have to create their first month’s content calendar. We’re trying to get them into the habit of, “I have a calendar.” It’s always a month or two ahead. The other thing is, they don’t take into consideration if something happens. You have a sick child and you can’t work for a week. What you’re doing can’t stop. If you’re ahead, then you have that ability to go ahead and do it. The reason I talk about the platform so much is, people jump in with the book, and then they have to go back and do all of this.

We see that a lot. When you’re at the point where you’re writing that book, it’s like, publish your course. You’re a moneymaker because most people don’t make that money off the book. You not only have that book ready, but you have to have that second step that you and I have talked about with the courses, that has to be ready too, so you can move from, the book is nurturing to, here’s now my big ticket.

There are so many tactics, and they’re not tactics in a bad way because sometimes we put a bad connotation to that. There are so many amazing opportunities you have if you’re growing your platform along the way but it is starting somewhere. A lot of the times, I get the authors who haven’t yet found their publisher. You can work backward. It’s harder, but it’s starting somewhere. Most people are overwhelmed and thinking, “I have to get three months ahead. What the heck is a content calendar?”

That’s why we do one-on-one coaching for that stuff because it is motivational and here it is. The nice thing is there are so many great AI tools now. That calendar can become easy. We teach a whole course on it on what to use, how to get the content out there, and how to break that content down. Once you learn how to break it down, it’s not hard. Authors go into it with the idea that everything has to start from scratch. They keep reinventing the wheel instead of using tools that will do that for them.

They also don’t realize you’re probably, at times, going to be bored of your message. You are because you’re talking about it so much. Hopefully, it’s something you’re passionate about, but there might be days where you’re like, “I’m not in my flow state. I’m bored of this.” Those people who are coming to your platform for the first time who barely met you on social media have no idea what you talked about a few years ago.

They’re not going to scroll through your entire social media to find what you talked about a few years ago. That’s the hope. If you keep talking about the same themes, those feelings, and those core values that you have, that’s what resonates. It can be a little repetitious. That’s when it’s like, take a minute, work ahead. You’re two months ahead. Don’t touch it for a little bit. Come back when you do feel like you’re in that creative flow again.

People don’t realize, too. You know this from being an editor, most of the time, you’re sick of your own book by the time you publish it. I wrote several fiction novels very quickly. One would be published, I’d be publicizing the second one, and writing the third one. I’d be like, “Are we really going to talk about that?” I don’t even remember what happened in that book.

That’s the business behind it. Even as an editor. I just finished an edit with a woman and we did a full-scale edit. I’m talking book doctoring, making sure the development was there, the copy edits, and then the proofread before it was sent to the publisher. I personally read that book six times by the time it was done. That’s what’s normal.

That’s why you have to make sure what you’re talking about resonates with your soul. You’re not just doing it as a money grab because if you’re going to have a quality book and invest all that money into good editing and a quality cover. You’re going to have to have talked about that message so much that you will be sick of it.

Define Your Perfect Reader With This Simple Guide

Add to it, you’re someone who helps people create courses as well. Think about how you’re now drawing that book that you’re sick of into a course that you’re going to have to give probably over and over. Unless, it’s something evergreen. You’re going to have to stay with those ideas and expand on them because that second step is usually your moneymaker. Not the first step where you’re talking about the book. You have a gift for us. Tell us a little bit about it. I love this gift because many of you don’t build this and you should because you talked about not just demographics but psychographics there. I feel like a lot of people miss the psychographics when they’re building that avatar.

I completely agree with you, which is why I’m so excited. It’s something I’m so passionate about, finding your ideal reader. I have a guide. It’s a questionnaire-type thing that asks you prompting questions about who your ideal reader is, how to define them, as well as that psychographic like who they are as a person at their core, so you can know them intimately. It makes you get specific. If you’re coming in thinking, “I’ll just put the range of 24 to 37.” It’s not going to work here. I want you to fill it out. You can look at that and completely know who your reader is. That’s what the guide is. I didn’t describe that well, but it’s to get you to know who your ideal reader is.

Folks, I want you to take this to heart. This will not only help define your reader. If you’re a nonfiction author who’s developing courses and building your platform, this is going to help you get more specific with that. The more specific you are with the business, the more business you’re going to get. It’s almost that marketing research that authors don’t do well. When I was in advertising, we did deep dives with it.

This will bring up those pain points for the readers. You will not only know their pain points, but your words will become sticky because you will be able to address them on a personal level as Juliet was saying. It’s everything. This will help you completely open up your business and expand.

It will. Amber, thank you.

Thank you so much.

Important Links

• Breakthrough Author Magazine
• Amber Parr Burdett on LinkedIn
• Sophia Learning
• Superbrand Publishing on LinkedIn
• The Writer’s Alignment: A Guide to Understand Your Ideal Reader and Write with Impact – Downloadable

About Amber Parr Burdett

Amber Parr Burdett is an accomplished editor, author, and writing/strategy coach with over six years of professional experience in the editorial and educational fields. She has empowered more than 350 authors across 13 countries to shape, write, refine, and elevate their messages through her expert guidance—ensuring proactive support and message clarity. Amber’s industry expertise spans editing, ghostwriting, manuscript development, and curriculum analysis/creation, where she has crafted editorial workflows, style guides, and instructional best practices for a range of clients from writing and publishing startups to educational organizations.

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